SM old history log - garrison SRL

<Midboss> i just wanted to here all about the old school days of 2010-2011 super metroid from you sometime

<garrison> haha I know most of it

<Midboss> yeah i figured you were the person to ask

<garrison> I actually did a lot of research on it too when tssb started

<Midboss> oh really? thats cool

<Midboss> i was really curious when who starting playing and what kinda times people had back then

<Midboss> and what kinda strats were getting found when

<garrison> yeah its neat stuff, there's 100% runs from all the way back in 1995

<garrison> on vhs and shit

<Midboss> woah, just random dudes?

<garrison> one of the first speedgames along with doom

<Midboss> or anyone still around

<garrison> yeah there were tapes being sent to magazines

<Midboss> awesome

<Midboss> any idea what kind of times they were?

<garrison> I'd imagine around 1:30 gametime

<garrison> real slow stuff

<garrison> but they were going for speed completions which was a first

<garrison> wrs for any% like 12 years ago were like :43 ingame

<Midboss> who is that by?

<garrison> that's the furthest back one I know, it was a tie between smokey, vopeju, and some other guy

<garrison> then smokey pretty much dominated the game and got :42, :38, and then a legendary :36

<garrison> that one stood for a while

<Midboss> are there videos of any of these runs?

<Midboss> or how did they communicate

<garrison> I think the :36 is on youtube

<garrison> I'll see if I can find it

<Midboss> that would be really great

<garrison> here's the :38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVA_RDzxss

<Midboss> oh wow zebbite skip was known back then?

<garrison> yeah I forget when that became a thing

<Midboss> and how long has mockballing been around?

<garrison> for a long time, I think all the way back to like 2004

<garrison> the appearance of hotarubi was actually pretty funny

<garrison> there were a couple dudes, one of which was groobo who did diablo 2 runs and some other games like halflife I think

<garrison> were trying to beat the :36 for a long time

<garrison> and there were claims of a :35 existing from a few people

<garrison> but groobo had this :34 run that he was sitting on and trying to submit to sda in secret to shock the community

<garrison> only to find out a japanese player submitted a :32 a month before by chance lol

<garrison> no one believed it at the time

<garrison> they used stuff like arm pumping in the room before speedbooster to try and discredit the run

<garrison> hotarubi and a japanese TASer named catnap were way ahead of the game as far as applying knowledge to the game

* DrDoobie has quit (Connection reset by peer)

<Midboss> oh wow

<Midboss> what do you mean by arm pumping to discredit the run?

<garrison> so arm pumping down slopes is a thing that you shouldn't do on downward slopes

<garrison> but there are some that are 100% safe

<Midboss> so they thought he was cheating to do it on those slopes?

<Midboss> or something

<garrison> so they had notions that he was somehow cheating because armpumping down that slope should have interupted his running

<Midboss> no one tested it lol.....

<garrison> nope lol

<garrison> different times

<Midboss> thats pretty great

<countdown42> lol

<Midboss> so what year was this about?

<garrison> that was 2006

<garrison> he actually had a different route that run too on the way to tourian

<countdown42> when did you start gari?

<countdown42> i remember hearing about mockballs from m2k2 way back

<countdown42> definitely before 2007

<garrison> he would climb red shaft and go back into green brinstar and go up by early supers

<garrison> I started in 2009

<Midboss> woah

<Midboss> how much slower is that than the current old route up?

<garrison> I think it ended up being six seconds slower iirc

<garrison> they used to go up through red tower by powerbombs too

<garrison> there was a big debate on which way was faster

<Midboss> so who was still playing and trying to beat hotarubi post that run?

<garrison> so there were two guys who were trying to beat hotarubi with a segmented run

<garrison> azor and 072

<garrison> they were gunning for :31 igt

<garrison> but then hotarubi beat them to it single segment

<garrison> without murder beam

<Midboss> all these routes were to optimize igt not real time right?

<Midboss> haha wow

<garrison> yeah hotarubi's :31 was the first run that sacrificed gametime for realtime

<Midboss> also murder beam?

<garrison> basically he just skipped murderbeam because he didn't like it or something lol

<Midboss> what is that?

<garrison> murderbeam is a glitchbeam similar to spacetime beam

<Midboss> is this GT stuff?

<garrison> basically what it does is create a verticle line wherever you shoot it that does continuous powerbomb damage

<garrison> it severely lags the game

<garrison> but you basically skip motherbrain's 3rd phase with it

<garrison> she starts out dead

<Midboss> interesting

<Midboss> can you link a run that has it in it?

<garrison> https://youtu.be/zbuxE7GXRXA?t=46m35s

<countdown42> lmao that desc

<countdown42> i love that log

<garrison> but yeah this strat loses like a minute of realtime

<garrison> its great

<Midboss> oh haha, i was wondering why it wasnt used anymore

<garrison> saved 8-15 seconds of gametime

<Midboss> so did people stop using it after hotarubis run kinda?

<Midboss> or were they still trying to beat his igt

<garrison> nah it was the standard for the game still

<garrison> everyone cared about gametime

<garrison> the switch to realtime was basically a natural part of racing

<Midboss> that makes sense

<Midboss> so who started racing this game?

<Midboss> like you are kassiuz?

<Midboss> in 2010 maybe

<garrison> like one player would try to catch up by not turning ice beam off and using missiles to kill enemies instead

<garrison> the first sm race was vopeju and elminster

<garrison> they raced to get 30% lol

<Midboss> haha nice

<garrison> any% races started with me, msds3170, and kassiuz

<Midboss> so you ran the game back then but didnt race?

<Midboss> ah

<garrison> a couple other people as well like dessyreqt and viett

<garrison> then dbx and frozencup came along

<garrison> I was running the game for two years casually before I found out about streaming or sda lol

<garrison> I started with srl in 2011

<Midboss> when you started out did you have a route that looked like hotarubis?

<Midboss> or had the game evolved by then

<garrison> basically everyone just copied hotarubi's route from his :31

<garrison> the big changes to bring realtime into becoming more optimized came from the japanese players

<Midboss> oh there were more japanese players?

<garrison> I found the nico rta wiki had a bunch of super metroid players all around the same skill level as the US crew

<garrison> these japanese players were like a 2nd generation

<Midboss> i had no idea at all

<Midboss> did they kinda die off, or do we just not know about them now?

<garrison> I had sluip get in contact with them because I thought it would be really cool to have a big international race

<garrison> and they all somehow liked the idea

<garrison> fusiana, emodoran, hypo, hakuten

<garrison> then a guy named toraiichi came and went and then danetch came around

<Midboss> oh i had no idea danetch was japanese

<garrison> the interesting thing about them coming around was emodoran was the first to skip spazer because he was good, but not as good as fusiana

<garrison> so he would use that to get what we thought was a temporary lead

<garrison> like everyone was convinced that skipping spazer was going to be slower

<garrison> and it was written off since emodoran was the only one doing it and the better player was getting spazer still

<garrison> basically at this point it was a race to get sub50

<garrison> between about 7 players (me, msds, kassiuz, dbx, fusiana, emodoran, hypo)

<garrison> hotarubi was the only one with a 49

<Midboss> wait is the run you were talking about earlier of hotarubis not his 49:15?

<Midboss> oh ok

<garrison> his :31 was 49:25

<Midboss> oh yeah 25

<garrison> both emodoran and fusiana got 49 before any of us

<garrison> and then they started disappearing

<garrison> so I decided to rta for sub50 and got it pretty easily

<garrison> and then I decided that I was so close to hotarubi's time that I would try to beat it

<garrison> started out skipping spazer in bad starts to try and save time before ultimately deciding that it was just plain faster

<garrison> once we had strats in norfair figured out

<Midboss> what kinda norfair strats do you mean

<garrison> I also skipped ridley's tank in my 49:25 because I knew I was close but not going to do it with that run

<garrison> basically just visuals for the more precise shots

<garrison> like the gate before wave beam

<garrison> or killing things with missiles and psuedo screw attacks

<Midboss> ah

<Midboss> so you still got kraids etank?

<Midboss> and maybe 20 15?

<garrison> yeah kraid's tank was a thing for quite a while

<garrison> we were still doing 25/10 at the point

<Midboss> ah

<Midboss> didnt hotarubi get crab supers though?

<Midboss> when did those get cut

<garrison> yeah he got crab supers

<garrison> I think kassiuz was the one in our crew who decided to just skip them

<garrison> hotarubi and the rest of the japanese players killed draygon with supers

<garrison> but we just learned the shinespark strats

<Midboss> oh, did you guys just discover tapping?

<Midboss> or what it known and noone had tried it in runs

<garrison> people did taps here and there but it really wasn't necessary for anything quite then

<Midboss> not even for like pillars?

<garrison> hotarubi's :31 had like a hybrid strat where he started with a shinespark and then killed with missiles

<garrison> nah pillars everyone used to just go into the room before and do a normal 2tap

<garrison> at that point nothing in the game required more than a 2tap

<garrison> I think dbx was the one who tried to figure out fast pillars like you see it now

<garrison> he was the one who had a more vested interest in 100% where there were a couple of bigger super short charges

<Midboss> oh that makes sense

<Midboss> i didnt really know he did that category

<garrison> super short charges were basically done by the m2k2 people but they never finished runs on ntsc

<garrison> just big talk

<garrison> so since we didn't think it was required we didn't bother with it

<garrison> fast pillars though was really the first instance in any% where a super short was necessary

<Midboss> so which people exactly are m2k2

<garrison> it saved too much time not to do

<Midboss> like smokey and the guys way back then?

<garrison> m2k2 at that point was 4n6, snuffit, reeve, and behemoth

<Midboss> yeah thats why i was wondering about that one specifically

<garrison> those guys have been around forever but were basically all talk

<garrison> and behemoth didn't play ntsc at the time

<garrison> so his runs weren't really comparable to our own

<countdown42> did people not know that pal ran slower

<garrison> it was done with igt

<garrison> so they basically tried to do rough skill conversions for some reason

<Midboss> cant you do wonky stuff like bomb torizo skip real time on pal tho?

<garrison> they used to say behemoth's pal :32 was comparable to a :29

<countdown42> oh right right

<Midboss> or is that an extreme case, and its mostly the same

<garrison> which now that we know what a :29 looks like, lol

<Midboss> oh

<Midboss> haha

<garrison> its really different

<garrison> its one of those games where they sped up the player to match ntsc speeds

<garrison> but nothing else moves at that speed

<garrison> lots of other weird differences too

<garrison> like phantoon has entirely different patterns

<Midboss> hmm that sounds weird to even try and do a time conversion then

<Midboss> but that also doesnt surprise me

<garrison> yeah things were different back then

<garrison> sda had a pal converter they hosted and they would convert all pal times

<garrison> not that it mattered for sm

<Midboss> was that actually useful for some games?

<garrison> you could argue that some games had an unfair advantage on pal because the game moves slower

<garrison> so you have larger windows for tight stuff and then the time gets converted as if the game was moving faster

<Midboss> that makes sense

<Midboss> oh yeah back to sm story time

<Midboss> so who was the first person to beat hotarubis time?

<garrison> me

<Midboss> with what time?

<garrison> 49:22

<garrison> I had tied it before that

<Midboss> mostly the same strats still?

<Midboss> or is this post skipping spazer and stuff

<Midboss> and crab supers i guess

<garrison> at this point I was skipping spazer, skipping ridley tank, and doing fast pillars

<garrison> also crab supers yeah

<garrison> so I saved 8 doors

<garrison> and a bunch of pause menus

<Midboss> how much time is a door anyway?

<Midboss> i feel like thats something i should know

<garrison> depends on the door and how you enter it

<Midboss> well yeah a door with no transition

<garrison> about 2 seconds to be rough

<Midboss> i learned aaaalll about doors moving a while ago lol

<garrison> that was basically my way to catch hotarubi despite not being at the same skill level

<garrison> the igt on my run was a :33 compared to his :31

<Midboss> wow its that much off?

<garrison> yeah

<garrison> skipping items really helped

<garrison> iirc hotarubi got 25%

<garrison> and I was getting 22%

<Midboss> my igt with a 49 is 33 too, so its interesting how much closer to my strats you probably were than his

<Midboss> oh is item fanfare igt?

<garrison> yeah the modern route that most people use is pretty similar to what we were doing

<garrison> item fanfare stops the game timer

<Midboss> i didnt know that, i thought it was just like door transitions and pauses

<garrison> yeah that's why it was beneficial for me to skip more items

<garrison> I pushed the game pretty hard for a long time

<Midboss> you didnt have the record continously did you though?

<garrison> we toyed with the idea of different routes for a while too to see if we could shave off more time

<Midboss> i thought kassiuz had it

<garrison> I had the wr from 49:22 to 47:50

<garrison> kottpower was the first person to beat me

<garrison> I was the first to beat hotarubi in anything

<garrison> since hotarubi was around only 4 other people have had the wr

<garrison> myself, kott, zoast, behemoth

<Midboss> oh, i didnt know it was that few

<Midboss> what did you do to push it down to 47:50?

<Midboss> better movement?

<garrison> yeah better movement, better luck

<garrison> tricks like the full halfy became doable without gravity jumping

<Midboss> oh you can gravity jump to get the full halfy lol?

<Midboss> i didnt know that

<garrison> the biggest change was we figured out how to xfactor phantoon without pausing and we skipped ice until later

<garrison> yeah its really hard that way lol

<garrison> but no one had the movement good enough for the trick, because no one knew about downgrabbing

<garrison> so you had way fewer frames to pull it off

<Midboss> yeah i was goign to ask when downgrabbing was starting to get used

<Midboss> since i havent seen a video with it yet

<garrison> msds was the one who really applied it

<garrison> me and him spent about a month off RTA to research optimizations

<garrison> inspired by krystal and audity's efforts at that time in alttp

<garrison> msds is probably the unsung hero of sm

<Midboss> this is still in 2011, or maybe 2012?

<garrison> 2012 at this point

<Midboss> and what kinda times did you guys have?

<garrison> that was when I went from like 48:25 to 47:50

<garrison> msds and dbx were always like 10-20 seconds behind my times

<garrison> I was a bigger grind monkey

<garrison> not so much a skill difference, I just dedicated way more time to doing runs

<garrison> kottpower actually improved really fast in the game

<garrison> it was kind of surprising when he beat me

<Midboss> do you know how long he had been playing the game when he did?

<garrison> kott was doing pal runs since like 2004

<garrison> but he didn't have great knowledge in the game

<garrison> once he became aware of what we were doing after the first ESA, his times got cut way down

<garrison> lol

<garrison> he wasn't even aware that there was a scene outside of m2k2

<Midboss> was the first esa 2011, or 2012?

<garrison> 2012 I think

<garrison> he went from a 54 to beating me in about 4-5 months

<garrison> and he wasn't streaming for a long time

<garrison> he used to frustrate me a lot because he refused to do fast pillars

<Midboss> haha

<Midboss> why not?

<garrison> he just didn't want to learn it

<Midboss> didnt he already 2 tap for things though?

<Midboss> its the same thing

<garrison> even though it saved like 9 seconds over the other strat

<garrison> I don't remember his reasoning behind it

<garrison> probably didn't stutter

<Midboss> thats a pretty easy 2 tap without a stutter though

<garrison> yeah idk

<Midboss> the camera is a bit wonky in that left room though

<Midboss> i learned the 3 tap because i really didnt like that left room

<garrison> yeah the left room is dumb

<garrison> I stopped playing at that time because it was kott's time to shine and I wanted to play other stuff

<garrison> I basically came back because I got talked into going to agdq

<Midboss> 2012?

<garrison> agdq2013

<Midboss> ah

<garrison> when I came back kott basically disappeared

<Midboss> did you run sm at that?

<garrison> yeah I did the same run

<garrison> the best that had been done at a marathon before that was a :42 igt

<Midboss> oh yeah, whats the story of how ua got sm into sgdq 2012

<garrison> and the year before uraniumanchor did a run where he died to ridley twice and didn't know what hole botwoon came out of

<garrison> he got like a :50 igt

<garrison> or something like that

<garrison> and just said a bunch of incorrect stuff

<garrison> that was the main reason why I decided to offer it

<garrison> because I thought that the marathon deserved a better run

<Midboss> ah

<Midboss> so how did your marathon run go?

<garrison> at the time my best was 47:26 and I got a 49:35 with animals saved

<garrison> I really wanted to beat hotarubi lol

<garrison> I almost died on phantoon too because he gave me one of those super rare patterns

<garrison> and I was really thrown off

<Midboss> oh wow, thats scary

<seancass> what surprise is it

<seancass> sunrise?

<garrison> sunrise surprise is the name

<Midboss> pretty sure sunrise = insta death in any

<garrison> that's what happened to epiclyepic this agdq

<Midboss> or did you survive it somehow?

<seancass> dang

<garrison> I'm just talking about him opening up in a weird place

<Midboss> i was so sad for epic this agdq

<garrison> like 1% of the time he'll open up quick there

<seancass> yeah i remember watching for a sec and seeing only 1 screen and :<

<Midboss> oh, i dont think ive even ever had a right fast

<seancass> then found out it was so sunrise surprise

<seancass> to*

<Midboss> is that more or less common than left mid?

<garrison> its funny because there was a thread about phantoon's patterns on m2k2 forumsjust before and reeve basically said he did a lot of research and he was missing patterns

<seancass> you get hit by all the fireballs or something?

<garrison> and when behemoth mentioned the one I got reeve said it was pal exclusive

<garrison> and I had to inform him otherwise

<Midboss> haha

<garrison> I said "shoutouts to reeve" during that run when it happened

<seancass> dang, tfw doing for others what you wish they'd do for you

<garrison> even though I was sure I was going to die

<Midboss> what kinda health did you have going into phantoon back then

<Midboss> i assumed you did ocean fly?

<garrison> over 200

<garrison> this was before botwoon tank replaced kraid tank

<Midboss> ah

<Midboss> so at this point

<Midboss> what kinda time did kott have before he quit

<garrison> he stopped with 47:37 for a while

<garrison> like somewhere between 4-6 months

<Midboss> when did he come back then?

<garrison> he came back and just barely beat my time

<garrison> we basically traded for 1 second like 4-6 times

<garrison> and then I beat his 47:16 with a 46:58

<Midboss> still in the 47m range?

<Midboss> oh

<Midboss> missed that last line

<garrison> then the game slowed for a bit again

<garrison> then kott and I traded again for a while

<garrison> I actually tied with him twice during that time

<garrison> pretty funny in hindsight

<garrison> we were tied with 46:50 and then I got 46:35 and he went quiet

<garrison> I kept trying to beat that run and get :30

<garrison> meanwhile kott was doing two different things

<Midboss> what were you guys doing to bring it down from the 47:50

<Midboss> still just better movement?

<garrison> he figured out the big metroid skip the way we do it now

<Midboss> or was a lot of work being done on strats still

<garrison> yeah it was mostly just better execution

<garrison> hitting skillcaps and finding out we were bad

<Midboss> also before i forgot

<Midboss> i was going to ask exactly what else you and msds found in that time you took off to examine the game

<Midboss> so you found about ledge grabbing

<Midboss> did you add stuff like more dboosts in then too?

<garrison> a lot of timing stuff

<garrison> there were a lot of flashy strats that weren't actually faster

<garrison> that people just assumed were faster

<garrison> like laying powerbombs to break bomb blocks being slower than just using a regular bomb and saving like a second of lag

<garrison> we did a lot of lag reduction stuff

<Midboss> how does lag work with igt?

<garrison> igt doesn't count lag frames

<Midboss> ah, so were these strats maybe a relic of the old igt stuff, or did no one know the difference back then

<garrison> yeah it was just stuff everyone was so used to doing that it took people a bit to reexamine

<Midboss> so you didnt start x factoring phantoon yet, when exactly did that start again

<garrison> xfactor phantoon was a thing just before hotarubi's :31

<garrison> we used the pause menu to time it and unequiped ice beam or spazer depending on the era

<Midboss> thats with the charge a normal beam jump and then equip wave for insta x factor or something right?

<Midboss> so when did pauseless happen?

<garrison> 4n6 had a doppler strat that used pause menus where instead of 2 charges and the x it did a single charge and an x followed by doppler

<garrison> so me and kassiuz messed with it and found it really inconsistent and awkward so we figured out how to do it with 2 xfactors instead

<garrison> with pauses at the time

<garrison> pauseless came from dessyreqt throwing out theory routes for 100% and saying that delayed ice beam was faster

<garrison> and that it might be faster for any% too

<garrison> I recorded a bunch of samples to try and figure it out and dessy found that it was like 30 seconds faster

<garrison> so we were inspired that night to all get together and try to figure out all of phantoon's patterns and find setups for all of them

<garrison> and we immediately remember what me and kassiuz did like a year before with 2 xfactors and brought it back

<garrison> and then after all the dessy said he did the math wrong and the two routes were even

<garrison> lol

<Midboss> haha

<Midboss> so is it really not faster?

<Midboss> i dunno who to believe now

<garrison> mrlandmaster found the hero shot up red tower that we used to do and dessy didn't take the two pause menus you skip into consideration

<garrison> so it went from being even to about 10 seconds faster

<Midboss> oh i see

<Midboss> how consistent were your setups back then?

<garrison> pretty consistent

<Midboss> ive seen soo many setups for each pattern its crazy

<garrison> I'd say about 75% success rate at the time

<Midboss> thats not too bad

<Midboss> were you guys resetting for patterns back then

<Midboss> or was it pretty negligible

<garrison> I was around the mid 46 level

<garrison> I got really frustrated

<garrison> that's when I went through my really mad phase with the game that made countdown hate me lol

<garrison> I was kind of a dick

<Midboss> when was this like mid 2013?

<garrison> yeah

<garrison> about two years ago

<garrison> march something or other

<garrison> baiscally the big breakthrough was kott figuring out the big metroid skip because it was thought of as a segemented run only thing for a long time

<Midboss> so this is after kott stopped with a high 46 and you kept driving it lower?

<garrison> deemed too hard for real runs

<garrison> yeah kott was in the lab

<garrison> I was really thankful for the big metroid skip because I got a good run with it and I was satisfied with the game

<garrison> but kott also pulled a behemoth at that time

<garrison> people have kind of forgotten about it but the kraid tank to botwoon tank route was kept a secret from me

<garrison> while I was grinding

<garrison> because kott wanted to beat me with it in secret

<garrison> lol

<Midboss> oh wow

<Midboss> so much backstabbing in this games history

<Knox> ive been enjoying this lore btw

<Midboss> did he ever beat your time with it?

<Knox> just reading

<garrison> yeah its pretty funny stuff

<garrison> he beat my 46:11 with a 46:10

<Midboss> how much faster is the route

<Midboss> like 5s?

<garrison> and I even though I was thinking about coming back decided I didn't care anymore

<garrison> since I got beaten by a route

<garrison> iirc 10-15

<garrison> because it skipped a refill

<Midboss> oh, i didnt think about that

<Midboss> so who else was a high level player around this time

<Midboss> was zoast up there yet?

<garrison> around that time zoast had just started to prove himself

<garrison> he got like a 48:40 when me and kott were trading

<garrison> and kott did what he normally did and took a long hiatus and zoast beat him with a 45:45

<garrison> and the game was thought of as "done"

<Midboss> you stopped at a 46:10, i thought you have a mid 45

<garrison> because super metroid players are really bad at guessing limits

<countdown42> 8)

<garrison> I came back after behemoth's run came out

<Midboss> oh i see

<Midboss> was this practice for agdq 2014?

<Midboss> i dont remember timeframes anymore

<garrison> behemoth's run came from nowhere with the first :29 igt and a bunch of crazy strats that they had kepts secret in a private thread

<Midboss> when did behemoth happen?

<garrison> he appeared during sgdq2013

<garrison> like the day before zoast did his 100% run that marathon

<Midboss> ah

<countdown42> i remember behe's run

<countdown42> zoast was bummed lol

<Midboss> so this isnt the new route

<countdown42> he spent like 10 hours a day that sgdq grinding

<Midboss> this happened before?

<garrison> nah not yet

<countdown42> i felt bad the dude did basically nothing else

<garrison> same route we were doing just with a bunch of crazy strats

<Midboss> how many times has behemoth done this now........

<garrison> 3

<countdown42> wait so the most recent, sgdq 2013 and ...?

<Midboss> 2 new route ones countdown

<garrison> he had another low 45 that he threw out there

<garrison> to beat zoast lol

<countdown42> oh after zoast came back with the 45:2x right

<garrison> well I guess that means 4

<garrison> because behemoth recently had that 43:11 or whatever

<garrison> lol

<Midboss> oh lol......

<Midboss> so zoast bopped kott with high 45

<Midboss> then got behemothed

<garrison> behemoth and his crew really make me not want to care about the game lol

<garrison> yeah that's right

<Midboss> then he got a 45:2x really quickly

<Midboss> and got behemothed again?

<garrison> yea

<Midboss> so hes done it 4 times to specifically zoast

<garrison> and to no one else

<Midboss> thats just mean

<countdown42> rofl

<countdown42> i shouldn't be laughing but shit

<Midboss> i had no idea

<Midboss> i thought it was just 2

<garrison> I also found out later that he was secretly trying to beat me to :30 igt

<garrison> lol

<garrison> but I got it first

<Midboss> nice

<countdown42> that video, were you going for rta at the time or igt?

<Midboss> so what was behemoths 2nd time

<Midboss> low 45 still?

<countdown42> the 46 rta 30 igt

<Midboss> i think rta

<Midboss> but still liked getting igt?

<countdown42> yea i'd imagine regardless the igt would still hold some value

<garrison> I always liked igt, but thought realtime was a better metric

<garrison> I just wanted to beat hotarubi completely

<garrison> and being tied igt bothered me

<garrison> even though my execution was a lot better

<garrison> all the realtime strats really hurt

<Midboss> ah

<Midboss> so what happened 45 and lower

<Midboss> this was about when agdq 2014 was rolling around maybe?

<garrison> zoast kept pushing

<garrison> and behemoth hit a brick wall

<garrison> at least thats what he said

<garrison> ivan and krauser were doing better and better

<garrison> and the three of us were racing to 44

<Midboss> you had come back at this point right?

<Midboss> ah ok

<garrison> and I kind of gave up rta and just started doing a bunch of practice

<Midboss> did it pay off?

<garrison> I kind of wanted to sendoff the game for myself with that marathon

<garrison> and then I had shit luck and got flustered and died

<garrison> lol

<garrison> appropriate sendoff

<Midboss> what happened in that anyway?

<Midboss> i didnt know the game at all then, but i watched it

<Midboss> and i think you died to pirates lol?

<garrison> yeah

<countdown42> didnt u kego with like 90hp

<Midboss> just back health from daygon to lower norfair?

<garrison> I did double kago without looking at my health

<garrison> lol

<Midboss> haha

<Midboss> sick

<garrison> I was so far behind at that point it didn't matter

<Midboss> do you know off the top of your head your 4 times before that race?

<Midboss> maybe ballparks?

<garrison> I had really awful phantoon and draygon luck

<garrison> iirc zoast had 44:35, ivan 44:50, krauser 44:54, me 45:17

<Midboss> dude andy was telling me krauser was the underdog for that race

<Midboss> what a lier

<garrison> I honestly should have rta'd a bit more so I wouldn't have gotten shit on so much, but I don't really care anymore lol

<garrison> yeah krauser was just the unknown

<Midboss> ah

<garrison> krauser had like maybe 10 viewers in his stream max

<Midboss> did you join weeklys really ever in the past few years?

<garrison> uhhh I've joined maybe 10 weekly races in the last two years

<Midboss> i feel like those woulda been good to do

<Midboss> rusty runs every week

<garrison> yeah they're fun whenever I come back

<garrison> honestly I kind of hate to say it because it sounds like I have a big head but it kind of bugs me to shit out a 48 and still beat so many people in the community in the weekly races

<Midboss> haha

<garrison> game is harder than I remember it being I guess

<Midboss> come beat me any time

<Midboss> i wont mind

<garrison> haha

<Midboss> and yeah i dunno, maybe youve just played it for so long

<Midboss> but i found this game really really really difficult

<countdown42> from everyone I know who picked it up as a side game

<Midboss> so many things i was uncomfortable with

<Midboss> like a snes game in general

<countdown42> they're all like 'yea i suck'

<Midboss> and learnign to claw

<Midboss> etc

<Midboss> everyone sucks

<Midboss> the game is just so hard

<countdown42> cfb seems to be moving on up there

<countdown42> he's been putting in some work

<garrison> I still think its the best 2d run

<garrison> even though I kind of hate the game now

<Midboss> yeah hes put a lot of effort into it

<garrison> lol

<garrison> cfb will beat japan soon

<Midboss> yeah so do you like really hate the game now?

<Midboss> how come?

<garrison> I really like the mechanics and I have fun playing it, I just get really frustrated with it

<garrison> it frustrates me way more than any other game for some reason, every small mistake knaws at me

<Midboss> if you were to join a race and get a 48 would you probably be frustrated the whole race?

<garrison> while like any other game I can shrug it off

<Midboss> i feel that way with some games i come back to

<garrison> it depends, most of the time when I come back I surprise myself with how well I do and then I struggle at draygon

<countdown42> > every small mistake knaws at me

<garrison> and lose a billiion in lower norfair

<countdown42> i got really bad with this and kirby

<garrison> yeah cd, that's a large part of the reason I wanted to stop playing

<garrison> I spent way too much time being mad

<countdown42> yea lol same

<Midboss> i wonder if the frustration comes with the difficulty of the game, or the years youve spent playing it

<garrison> and I'm not an angry person in general lol

<garrison> I honestly think its the time I spent

<countdown42> especially when usedpizza and suzu and pure came along and were like 'yea this game is easy'

<garrison> same thing over and over again

<countdown42> made me feel like a retard cause my time is really bad and my sob is like 3min better

<countdown42> yea

<countdown42> practice will do that

<garrison> I feel like zoast has been able to keep it fresh for him because he does like every category

<Midboss> i cant even comprehend playing a game for 5 years honestly

<garrison> while the only one I ever took seriously was any%

<Midboss> i get sick of games after 6 months tops

<countdown42> zoast amazes me tbh

<countdown42> his pateince

<Midboss> yeah i asked zoast about it last sgdq

<garrison> I've seen zoast get mad more and more these days

<garrison> it kind of cracks me up because I can relate

<garrison> lol

<garrison> or seeing zoast get mad at his chat sometimes

<countdown42> well tbf his chat kinda sucks

<Midboss> hmm ive never seen him mad at his chat?

<countdown42> i have once or twice, he just takes the chat off his layout

<garrison> he hasn't done it much lately

<garrison> he's gotten better about it

<garrison> a year ago I saw him snap on a couple of occasions

<garrison> dude all sm chats suck

<garrison> that's a large part of the reason I was okay with giving up my partnered channel

<garrison> to have a channel with just friends and not a million idiots asking me to play sm

<Midboss> oh was that why you switched?

<garrison> I switched mostly because I wanted to ditch the _tt in the nick

<garrison> that's why I got partner in the first place

<Midboss> what does _tt stand for anyway?

<garrison> but then as soon as I got it they flipflopped the policy

<garrison> talkingtime

<garrison> it was a forum I used to post on like 6 or 7 years ago

<Midboss> ah

<Midboss> and wait they flipflopped the policy?

<Midboss> i thought all paterners have always gotten free name changes

<garrison> yeah it used to be that way

<countdown42> nope

<Midboss> thats dumb

<garrison> and as soon as I got it partnered channels couldn't change anymore

<garrison> so epiclyepic had a namechange he couldn't use and he offered it to me

<garrison> so I used it on an alt

<Midboss> nice

<Midboss> whats the story of epic and 100% btw

<Midboss> he had the record forever ago right?

<garrison> nah its nothing like that

<garrison> he took it from zoast once when zoast was doing other categories, but that's about it

<Midboss> ah

<garrison> and zoast took it back really quick when he got back to it

<Midboss> sounds about right

<Midboss> no one else ever got close right?

<Midboss> ivan is maybe a few min off?

<garrison> ivan and dbx had good times

<countdown42> i thought kott was into hundo for a bit

<Midboss> oh yeah recently he was wasnt he countdown

<garrison> kott picked it up recently and beat zoast

<garrison> zoast took it back though

<Midboss> why did you never do other categories gari?

<countdown42> fuck dude

<countdown42> the seek bar is broken on zoast's PB

<garrison> I didn't like 100% because there wasn't much risk of death

<Midboss> what about RBO

<garrison> I'm not really a completionist when it comes to speedrunning, I tend to just like the fastest categories to show off to people

<Midboss> thats the category i have my eye on

<Midboss> it looks pretty fun

<garrison> RBO I honestly think is kind of dull, or at least it was back then

<Midboss> why not real any% or whatever then?

<garrison> it was just a bunch of collecting

<Midboss> hmm i think its a lot better now

<garrison> glitched any% wasn't a real thing when I was playing

<Midboss> oh is that pretty new?

<countdown42> http://puu.sh/gVXYP/af62992b75.jpg

<Midboss> yeah can i get the history of old stuff that is pretty much banned in any% now?

<Midboss> like GT classic and xray stuff

<garrison> yeah

<garrison> when that stuff came around we basically talked about it and decided that we liked any% the way it was

<Midboss> when was this

<garrison> and basically its just a no oob no gt category

<Midboss> like how old is GT classic?

<garrison> this was like late 2013

<garrison> gt classic is from 2011

<garrison> I was the first one to take it somewhat seriously

<garrison> I thought it was a pretty fun thing to do after pbs occasionally

<garrison> also I just checked and I have 638 super metroid races

<garrison> 243 1st places

<Midboss> all from 2011 lol?

<garrison> 157 quits

<garrison> yeah I was pretty much done racing outside of weeklies after 2012

<garrison> I raced the shit out of the game with msds and kassiuz

<garrison> we would do like 3-5 any% races a night

<Midboss> yeah ive heard all about the glory days of 2011 srl